Walker Between Two Worlds

IN THIS ISSUE FALL 2010

Fall 2010 Issue

Exclusive Interview with JZ Knight
Author: Jair Robles and Danielle Graham
Photographer: Paulina Amador / JZK Inc.

In February, 1977, JZ Knight, housewife, mother and accomplished business woman, standing in her kitchen playing with pyramids, saw something on the other side of the room: “This glitter, like you would take a handful and turn it loose through a ray of sunshine – and there were these lights happening, and I was mesmerized. And there appeared this seven-foot-tall entity who was as big as life and the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.”

The entity spoke: “Beloved woman, I am Ramtha the Enlightened One, and I have come to help you over the ditch. It is called the ditch of limitation. I am here, and we are going to do grand work together.”

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Walker Between Two Worlds - Exclusive Interview with JZ Knight

JZ became Ramtha’s first student, and he taught her while she worked through her own utter confusion and dismay: Was he an angel? But there were no wings. Was he the devil? Was he a phantom? Was he an illusion? Eventually, she had to accept that there were such beings that lived outside the realm of human perception, and only appear to us when we are open enough to see them.

After two years of guiding JZ through new knowledge and experiences, Ramtha taught her to leave her body, telling her, “This is what you are going to experience the moment of death. You are going to die, but it won’t hurt, and it will only be a little short while, and then you are going to come back.” Once she learned to relax, “All of a sudden I was chasing that light at the end of the tunnel and this wind was whizzing by me. The moment I hit that light so bright, I was up against a light wall. I remember Ramtha talking to me; it was really beautiful and loving, and he said, “Now you are your true self at this moment. This moment is who you really are, and you have left your body behind.”

Thus started a journey between channel and channeled entity, student and teacher, that would evolve to become a School of Ancient Wisdom, but unlike any before in the history of mankind, open to the public – from all cultures, races, nationalities, and persuasions. For the first ten years, the teachings, known as “The Dialogue Days,” were hotel based question and answer sessions. Then in 1988, Ramtha transformed his teachings into a formal training school all because someone finally asked the all-important questions: “Can you teach me what you know? How do I also become God realized?”

Since then, Ramtha’s school, based on both the teaching of knowledge and then the experience of that knowledge through disciplines that Ramtha created and implemented, has been a demanding, rigorous training ground for those who attend, and it has not been without controversy. In 1992, faced with accusations of fraud and “cultic brainwashing,” Dr. J. Gordon Melton, an American religious scholar and founding director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion, was brought in as a witness and to testify for a pending court case.

Melton was tasked with determining whether or not the charges of fraud were valid, and after two years of studying the training, participating in the training, living in JZ’s house and speaking at length with students and JZ’s personal staff, he found nothing in the phenomenon to suggest anything fraudulent. He would eventually ask JZ’s permission to write a book about the school based on what he had seen and heard: “She [JZ] had developed a noteworthy religious (sic) community, and I wanted to be the one to document it.” Finding Enlightenment, Ramtha’s School of Ancient Wisdom was published in 1998 by Beyond Words Publishing.

SuperConsciousness Magazine recently spoke with Dr. Melton and asked him to share his further contemplations since the late 1990’s, and three things came immediately to mind. One was that he perceived JZ Knight as a woman of great integrity, and that she had demonstrated this most notably by how well she handled an incident that occurred in the mid-1980’s involving investments in her Arabian horse business. Melton also remembered one of his key experiences which had helped convince him of JZ’s authenticity, sourced from his conversations with a member of JZ’s household staff, Molly Gordon. During their early morning chats over cups of coffee, Molly’s insights into the distinctive characteristics between JZ and when Ramtha was utilizing JZ’s body, were consistent regardless of the direction Melton’s questioning of Molly took.

I think that the most spiritually evolved person is someone who never has to worry about being taken care of. They never worry, wherever they are, because they are in touch with where they are. It’s on their terms, but their terms are the whole environment around them.

Yet, the first thing that came to mind was that in his decades of studying religious and spiritual practices, how rare it was for students or devotees to consistently report the experiencing the extraordinary: Healings, teleportation, levitation, clairvoyance. During the course of his professional career, less than 1% ever reported experiencing such phenomena, yet at Ramtha’s School, it was almost 100%.

Dr. Melton’s involvement would have a significant impact on the school generally and JZ personally by suggesting to JZ that “other scholars would jump at the opportunity” to study this phenomenon as well. JZ eventually agreed and a dozen scholars and researchers from a broad range of disciplines set about studying JZ, the training – both knowledge and disciplines, and the student body through questionnaires, and individual psycho-physiological testing of eight advanced students.

The results of JZ’s tests specifically astounded all the researchers. World renown parapsychology researcher Dr. Stanley Krippner reported, “When we were testing JZ, [we] were quite astonished because the needles on the polygraph that were graphing all of the psycho-physiological responses literally jumped from one part of the page to the other part of the page when Ramtha entered the picture. He had never seen such a dramatic change…. She’s not faking it because when we hooked her up to test her physiological responses, we got results which could not have been manipulated.” Later Krippner would say to JZ as they were leaving the building, “Well, JZ, I don’t know what you are, but at least you’re not a fake, and not a fraud.”

Walker Between Two Worlds - Exclusive Interview with JZ Knight

SuperConsciousness Magazine also spoke with Dr. Ian Wickramasekera II, past-president of the Association for Applied Psycho-physiology and Biofeedback, who was originally involved with the collection and analysis of the test data obtained by his father from both JZ and the advanced students. He noted that the psycho-physiological tests given everyone showed rare and paradoxical results: “It is remarkable to witness dramatically elevated psychophysiological responses while in a state of complete relaxation.” He went on to explain that meditation usually produces the classic relaxation response, thus to observe such a heightened brain activity response while the body remains inactive, had rarely been observed before and only from reclusive, advanced adepts. Wickramasekera lauded JZ and Ramtha for creating the school in the west and making the knowledge and training so accessible without requiring significant lifestyle change or heavy financial commitment.

The extraordinarily unique life experiences of JZ Knight, tested and backed by an extensive body of scientific evidence, lend an unparalleled credibility to her perceptions and insights about the nature of the spiritual journey. We are honored to present our featured interview with JZ Knight, where she shares her insights about the nature of change and spirituality, the future of mankind, and, for the first time publicly, her experiences in other realms while Ramtha is using her body to teach the Ancient Wisdom.


SC: While creating this issue focused on spirituality, we thought a lot about “What is spirituality?” and “What is the spiritual journey?” The clearest way we found to define those concepts for ourselves is that spirituality is all about growing up and is the product of an expanding awareness and perception of ourselves.

JZK: Absolutely.

I think it’s a very bold undertaking to define spirituality because that topic hits everyone’s subconscious prejudice, and people haven’t yet been schooled to understand their spiritual life as their real life.

True visionaries are in short demand. You rarely find that intrinsic characteristic. The vision of a great life to a visionary is making the world better, making whatever persuasion they come from groundbreaking, liberating, making known the unknown.

The root of spirituality and the way it is defined in all sophisticated dictionaries is the nonphysical aspect of a human being that is at the seat of emotion and character. Isms, unfortunately, only got defined as an ism, that a nonphysical being would be less interested in the material world. So the ism, historically, is the separation from the Spirit of the material world. Those who are spiritual follow an ism to where they focus more on the nonphysical elements instead of wait for the material elements in the purest sense of the form.

I do not subscribe to that. It absolutely needs to be redefined, and that will come as the ism includes more hard science, infallible science, that points the way to a new ism. I find the definition of Spirit, the nonphysical, absolutely true and that it survives death. What I don’t agree with is how things are made, and I have seen it for thirty-four years. I have experience on other levels as well as this level. The enigma of time on those other levels is immediate. The background is immediate. The scene to which one finds themselves in is immediate.

I will tell you what I know from being a walker in two worlds, many worlds.

In other words, if someone longs for a memory that they had of a rainy, windy night, and they have their dog sitting beside their chair in front of the fire and it was snapping while the wind was howling outside, entities on the other side still have those sorts of recall because it is part of the element that helps to define and evolve them. Instantly that scene is replicated — instantly.

Here, it takes a while, but there it’s instant. If you go further afield, or if you collapse time even faster, it gets really bizarre because it’s like watching a fireworks display with about a billion of them going off all at once. Just think of a fireworks display on the Fourth of July. Take a little image leap in your mind and ask what if the sky was literally packed with fireworks, always changing color? And this is really an impoverished description of it.

The stimulation of reality is so rapid, like lightning strikes, and yet you would look at this from your Observer point of view and go, “My God, what in the world is this, these smears of light in forever?”

Those are realities, and those realities are happening so rapidly they seem to be adverse to light, and then they’re gone from our time. In their time they are smears of creation occurring. Just think of the “pop” before a Roman candle goes off and then it sprays. We could go further, but I don’t have recall further than that.

Here’s my point: In these worlds of beingness, there is an intractable relationship between the perceived reality and the entity. You do not know the difference. When you take that to a more rapid reality, actually the stage setting is the entity.

My opinion of a spiritual person is when they grow up and see their intricacy in all things. That’s the super-connectedness of God’s love. We cannot stand outside God’s love because we are the action of it.

It’s hard to isolate ourselves as the center of the universe when in fact we are the universe. And if we gnawed at that theory, it’s not too far afield to agree that in other worlds, from our perspective, it would be just bursts of light.

Those bursts of light are really a very rapid reality, which scientists call particles or dancing energy, but in reality, the whole reality, you cannot separate the particles from the energy. You can’t separate the energy from its light. They’re all the same thing.

One of my greatest and most astounding moment was to see this “billions of fireworks” thing that I wasn’t ready to experience. It was purely an observation, and yet I was a very teeny being. The idea is that there was no separation and that creation was actually going on, making known an unknown. What are they doing? I’d like to see their ideas, but they were the reality.

Have you ever seen a picture sped up? Doesn’t it turn into a smear? And if that went even faster, wouldn’t it look like a laser light? Can you imagine an unlimited number of laser lights?

Taking it down to this world where it’s very slow and materialistic, we clog ourselves at being victimized by the gross injustices of our world. It is where I think we are the most impoverished in the sense that we don’t realize that our whole identity is not what is reflected in the mirror but is actually reflected in the frequency of the whole stage of our life around us, and that’s what we really are. We’re not the target, our bodies, our personalities but simply implementing it. The whole reality that we have is actually us, and being in other realms, that is absolutely self-evident.

The mysterious Void, the mysterious light spectrum, is reflexive, and we affect it. That’s why quantum science is so important for every enlightened — or wish-to-be-enlightened — person to study the practical application of thought, how it’s generated, and its proverbial effects in our lives.

I know how important the disciplines are. I profoundly know how important the Neighborhood Walk® is. I profoundly know how important the Create Your Day® is because we are assigning our mind to a scene that will be made out of us, and if it is, then we have truly become a spiritual person.

We don’t realize that our whole identity is not what is reflected in the mirror but is actually reflected in the frequency of the whole stage of our life around us, and that’s what we really are.

My opinion of a spiritual person is when they grow up and see their intricacy in all things. That’s the super-connectedness of God’s love. We cannot stand outside God’s love because we are the action of it. An open mind is not a big-headed narcissist. An open mind is “being the morning,” and the morning is exactly what it’s supposed to be.

My opinion comes from real experience. You can’t test me there but you could test what was happening with my body when Ramtha comes in. And it was off the charts when those scientists tested me. I was gone. I was somewhere. Where was I? Where was JZ? I was in those supersonic places and bringing it back and understanding how important it is to tend to ourself.

Those who think they have to “talk spiritual” to me is so comical. When people say they have a spiritual life, I would go “Well, I certainly hope so. It certainly looks like you’ve got one going. You got a pulse? Yes, you’re spiritual.” It’s a waste of time to talk spirituality to me unless you’ve got some marbles in place, because my narrative is going to be about how the nonphysical is integrated into the material and that the material is there because of that.

Walker Between Two Worlds - Exclusive Interview with JZ Knight

SC: How do you think humanity is doing? Are we growing up?

JZK: I don’t think so. I think that the people who are individuals, the eggheads of the world — meaning those who are on the breaking edge of engineering, science, health, and the humanities, making a better world in terms of human beings — I think that we have an under amount of such people.

Unfortunately, I see the Western Hemisphere as a democracy that has gone soft in terms of everyone trying to survive, trying to edge out the next person to get the next job. We call that survival. When it wasn’t that, it was all about entertainment. When you study the children in grade school, junior high, and high school, what is the one thing they want to be? The overwhelming majority want to be a basketball star, actors, actresses, work on Wall Street, and have a great car.

True visionaries are in short demand. You rarely find that intrinsic characteristic. The vision of a great life to a visionary is making the world better, making whatever persuasion they come from groundbreaking, liberating, making known the unknown. There is exotic energy from these people, whether it is a better way to get rewarded in life than from the monetary system, a better way to cure cancer instead of chemotherapy, a better way to lead people to form states to take care of the whole, and that everyone is an equal. Instead, it is the opposite right now.

To the heart of your question, it takes crisis to enable a spiritual search. It takes crisis to create reform, to enable reform. The Gulf spill may just have to be bad enough to bring out of the closet those hidden scientists that weren’t ever allowed to come out because the politics of our government is really controlled by oil. Wars happen because of oil, because it’s called an asset. Sometimes crisis is great to enable reform, to change the ideology of one person or a nation.

We absolutely have that technology in the black projects. We have replicators in the black projects. We have craft that control time and space. Why don’t we use it? Because it would revamp the entire world’s economy.

At present this is a star-struck, entertained, less-educated Western Hemisphere society whose goals are less than altruistic. So when you ask me if we’re growing up, I think very few of us are growing up. I think the rest of us are immature.

There are just a handful of people in the world who are creating greater forms of energy, greater pathways to communication without frying the brain of a teenager, redefining medicine. We do not become spiritually enriched because of a few people.

People will go back to their churches and the churches will tell them that this was the will of God and to try to be better so that God will favor you. I think we are a childish and immature spiritual world because we are there on our own terms. I’m just telling it from my heart.

SC: Do you have a vision of the future? Insights?

JZK: It’s inevitable. The more blessed our world is with crisis, the more hope we can see for change. I don’t think that change is a bad thing. I think it is a necessity. I don’t think that crisis is a horrible condemnation of God; I think it is the engine that makes the necessity of change, and so eventually I think that will happen.

You would have thought if they would have instituted the draft in North America, brought it back in, that you would have college campuses erupting all over this country and in Europe because they don’t want to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq. There would be card burners and an outpouring of outrageousness. But because they’re not getting drafted, there’s no crisis; right? This war doesn’t affect them, except for those lovely people that have their families involved in it or sometimes out of necessity so they can get an education.

You would have thought that what happened on Wall Street and around the world would have brought out the people of the Civil Rights movement. There would be five thousand people showing up in New York. And yet they ripped everyone off and this country became the biggest casino there is. You would have thought that there would be people pouring into the streets over this oil disaster. Did they? No.

These are real, viable, terrible things that have happened that people haven’t reacted to, so I’m painting them all with a broad brush but in fact the majority of people have not reacted. A handful of people who really care are trying to hold their little sign up and say, “You ripped us off.” Why are we in Afghanistan when Al Qaeda is in Africa? Why aren’t we devastated about the Gulf of Mexico? So if you ask me if I think that we are spiritually mature? Absolutely not.

Well, isn’t that what we’re supposed to be doing, making known the unknown? I think it’s just about time that we opened the Pandora’s Box and let the future come, and it should be all about great replicators and antigravity and greater beings that we can actually have a conversation with.

If we were truly evolved to come out of our narcissistic status — the me-me-me-me-me, I own you, I control you, I could pull the plug whenever I want to, you will do as I say to you — or the insecure person who is very, very social, have to keep those intact so that they feel good about themselves — if you disconnect those kinds of mentalities about what is going on, you can’t say hopefully they will evolve one day. The world is the way it is because they are the way they are. When we really grow up, when we are not at the heart of the universe but are interconnected, webbed, and woven through it all, then we have no issue in seeing ourselves as the grounds of our reality because then we can solve our own problems. We can be our own security. Wherever we are, we are.

If we were really that savvy, we wouldn’t have crisis. We would only have the breaking of the old bread and crumbling it back up to make something else with it. We would absolutely be in charge of the remake of any environment. That’s not crisis; that’s celebration. When we are at odds with the natural environment, it is going to cause crisis because we’re ill-prepared to address it.

I think that the most spiritually evolved person is someone who never has to worry about being taken care of. They never worry, wherever they are, because they are in touch with where they are. It’s on their terms, but their terms are the whole environment around them. The person who is afraid of crises, then they are spiritually immature because they’re out of touch with the fabric of what they are.

SC: You said it earlier – that we are the ground of our own being, our own environment. There is no separation.

Walker Between Two Worlds - Exclusive Interview with JZ Knight

JZK: There really isn’t, and this is the new frontier that I think will be immensely important. It is actually already being broached in the black projects that are under way and have been under way for a while. But when you really talk about advanced civilization, technology, then you get down to the nuts and bolts of things. I mean, you don’t see alien technology in terms of spark plugs and fossil fuel, do you?

We don’t think of advanced technology in terms of shopping at the grocery store, do we? We think about the replicator on the Star Trek Enterprise, “Earl Grey, hot.” We didn’t see them on the Enterprise whipping things out in the kitchen. There were no cooks. There were no freezers for food.

This is such a lovely contemplation because as long as we have a vision of the way we think an advanced civilization would be, the closer to the mark of how it is to be. It isn’t something we can’t be a part of; it’s something we decide that we want to be and that it’s going to be part and parcel of our environment.

What that has to do with evolution is that if we think in terms of the whole of our social-conscious world right now, it doesn’t even think in terms of the replicator. It’s all about crops. What if we don’t have to cut down the rain forest anymore? What if we don’t have to take up enormous amounts of farmland? We can let it return to a natural species or introduce new ones. Those ideas should have already come.

It’s hard to isolate ourselves as the center of the universe when in fact we are the universe.

In the black projects, they are already under way. The environment is basically those bands, those electromagnetic fields that, at the heart of it, is the craft, and at the heart of the craft are the beings who give life to the craft. The beings and the craft are the same thing, because we give off this enormous electromagnetic field and that field isolates it from time and space, which it actually does. So the field effect is being one with the field. The field effect is in complete harmony. That’s why it’s antigravity. It’s in a bubble of space and time. Its field effect goes all the way back to the craft and to the beings inside. Now here we go. That’s pretty awesome. We absolutely have that technology in the black projects. We have replicators in the black projects. We have craft that control time and space.

Why don’t we use it? Because it would revamp the entire world’s economy.

SC: Good.

JZK: You say so, but Goldman Sachs wouldn’t. Exxon wouldn’t. Wall Street wouldn’t. People who invest in those companies wouldn’t because it would ruin their holiday in the Caribbean. So we elect politicians that keep everything status quo. Politics is very rarely evolutionary. It’s more or less tolerating the present and keeping that fixed.

I brought up this idea about what we imagine. It’s kind of like asking a child how they think a UFO works. “What would great superstars from another civilization be able to do?” Children would tell you what they’re able to do. The point is there is no lack in us to be visionaries; there’s just no will to implement it.

Part of being connected is not to hold it to the status quo, that your reality and you are the same thing, but to advance it. The eagerness to advance the web of life and its ability to change, to augment, to be completely different has got all the ingredients just begging for somebody to bake a better cake.

We can’t really change “out there” until we have redefined spiritual in ourselves, and then “out there.” And when we do, we will have the same technology as the advanced civilizations inside the UFO that makes the field process that gives them a bubble outside of time and space. What’s the prognosis on that? It’s got to happen to us and make us uncomfortable before we’re willing to change.

In fact, I never saw the black projects, Area 51, all the aliens, and all that stuff. People will say, “It’s horrible, horrible.” No it isn’t. I thought it was the only way evolved people had to hide, to continue their own evolution to be in the stars and planets and to be in time. They really had to have no religious affiliation. The future destroys religion, because religion is based upon the ending of things and then a reward or punishment. If you give your power to that, then you get your just rewards. I think it’s absolutely a crime to do nothing in this life and wait for your just rewards when it’s all over with.

If you go further afield, or if you collapse time even faster, it gets really bizarre because it’s like watching a fireworks display with about a billion of them going off all at once.

I think the greatest secret governments are way ahead because they’re already out there getting just rewards and seeing and knowing marvelous things. But they can’t do it for us because it will destroy our faith, which also means credit, which also means Wall Street, which means churches, which means politicians. I always thought it was really cool that there were people in this world that were really qualified for extraordinary discoveries, and they made themselves qualified for it. So in terms of making known the unknown, they are really getting with it. It makes me sad that we’re so caught within our needy trap of identity that we can’t expunge ourselves from our need to be rewarded by the adventure of space and the future.

I have seen such marvelous things. It’s not so much that I can’t talk about it; I just don’t know how to talk about it. And then there are elements of our society that probably I should not even talk about or touch on that are shocking and surprising, but I think refreshing. It’s this whole hidden agenda, you know, the black projects.

SC: But that’s such an enlightened perspective.

JZK: Well, isn’t that what we’re supposed to be doing, making known the unknown? I think it’s just about time that we opened the Pandora’s Box and let the future come, and it should be all about great replicators and antigravity and greater beings that we can actually have a conversation with.

We can open our minds to greater things, that our spirituality is part and parcel of that, and the mind, like Ramtha teaches, is the ground of our reality. The bird who sings a song outside of my window is the song of my soul, and the light coming through the day is not a déjà vu through the branches. Today it is the poetry, that I’m actually part of something bigger this moment. I finally realized that after a billion times of experiencing it.

To me, I just think that when we give ourselves permission to not go along with the crowd and just think big and wonderful and find the biggest, brightest lines that give us a vision, we know that what we put in our minds is going be created out there in the world. We know that the moment we step out of the box of our identity and get big, we make it happen in our lives.

You cannot address the future unless you want to be present there. The future belongs to those who blow their mind in an unlimited, unfettered way to embrace outrageous design and they don’t feel the least bit insecure about that.


JZ Knight is the unique channel of Ramtha and author of the best- selling autobiography, “A State of Mind, My Story.” Historians and religious experts who have studied her life’s work call JZ Knight the Great American Channel and recognize her as one of the most charismatic and compelling spiritual leaders of the modern age. For more information on JZ, go to http://www.jzknight.com/. For more information about Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, go to http://www.ramtha.com/default.asp.

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